Cheney kicked Edwards Ass last night.

**wildnthewind** · November 2nd, 2004, 02:51 AM

Originally posted by zelazny:
And as far as 9/11 goes.. i'm sorry i have to put it this bluntly, sure, i wasn't there. Yes, it was not my country. No, i didn't lose anyone in that attack, but you need to go on with the whole life thing.

First of all sorry I haven' stopped by (some know why).

Yeah, it didn't happen in your country, so therefore you can't really know how it felt to see the planes, buildings, people jumping from over 100 stories. I won't go on and on, but I'd have never known what people felt who saw this.

One incident you say? Yes, in our country on our soil, but it's not one incident, it's all over the world, it's Russia, Spain, and so many more. The list goes on. I guess some think "oh well, it's terrorism" and nobody does anything about it. In my opinion someone has to. Sure as hell can't depend on most of Europe to do anything. You do know why the French didn't want to...duhhh! Are we supposed to let those barbarians take all our lives over, all for the sake of Allah (or so they say)? Next thing someone will be saying the holocaust didn't happen (some have already actually). Duhhhhh (yeah again). [img]confused.gif[/img]

We're truly a peaceful nation by nature and by preference, and we feel a responsibility as a nation to make it possible for those in the world who live under a tyrant to have at least the choice for freedom in their own lives. We were drug into World War I and World War II...ahem...think about where Europe would be if we hadn't cared about those people (nobody gives us credit).

Yeah, politics isn't boring, that's for sure. And don't take me wrong, I'm not angry here, we just deeply care about others as well as ourselves.

Shatzy....under our present government I'm afraid your solution concerning changing presidents wouldn't be possible.....LOL! Love ya anyway though [img]tongue.gif[/img]

****Stealing Shatzy's vote**** [img]smile.gif[/img]

And for the record here I'm not a Bush fan, but I'm not too hot on the alternative either.

**SHATOUSHKA** · November 2nd, 2004, 07:04 AM

your post kinda reminds me of whitebread immigrants
conquering a country and forcing its 'savages'
to follow their xtian ways for the sake of
religious freedom.

my point is... its a constant contradiction.

the fact that i am living in arkansas has no more
bearing on 9-11 than zela living in the
netherlands. i'm just as foreign.

i wasn't there... i didn't know anyone... i didn't
feel an overwhelming sense of patriotism...

in fact, i really just felt bad for the senseless
death... and i would have felt bad regardless
if it was in new york, washington, or iraq.

we just deeply care about others as well as ourselves.

tee hee

**zelazny** · November 2nd, 2004, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by wildnthewind:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by zelazny:
And as far as 9/11 goes.. i'm sorry i have to put it this bluntly, sure, i wasn't there. Yes, it was not my country. No, i didn't lose anyone in that attack, but you need to go on with the whole life thing.

First of all sorry I haven' stopped by (some know why).

Yeah, it didn't happen in your country, so therefore you can't really know how it felt to see the planes, buildings, people jumping from over 100 stories. I won't go on and on, but I'd have never known what people felt who saw this.
<hr /></blockquote>So how does it feel? I've seen it too, just the way the most americans did. On TV. What's the difference? I felt the sorrow for people for dying, i've seen the poor jumpers, who had to choose one death over another..
How are my feelings different? I'm just another human being. How does not being an 'american' means i cannot feel with you? Did you know anyone in the building?
Now if you knew people in there, yes, i could believe that you have 'different' or more intense feelings than i did, but i find it hard to believe that you seem to have better or more correct feelings about the deaths of others just because they happened to die on your soil (Oh, there were MANY foreigners, including dutchmen in the twin towers.)

Essentially you are saying : "You are not american, so you cannot understand". Tell me then, what the difference is why i can't and you can. Besides that you seem to take it personally, whereas it was not an attack on YOU but you take it as such anyway.

One incident you say? Yes, in our country on our soil, but it's not one incident, it's all over the world, it's Russia, Spain, and so many more. The list goes on.

Yes, and do you see spain attacking a country?
Do you see spain trying to shock and awe the world with huge and inconsequential anti-terrorism campaigns?

I guess some think "oh well, it's terrorism" and nobody does anything about it. In my opinion someone has to.

okay, a few things about terrorism (And why the hell did that word hardly exist before 9/11? It seems the whole world terrorism seems bound to that single event reinforcing it beyond it's own boundaries)
#1 - If someone is willing to die for his cause, you simply cannot stop him. A terrorist wil ALWAYS find ways to strike at you. There is no safety, just a reduction of risk. You can reduce the risk all you want, one day someone will get lucky, smart or good enough to do the same.

#2 - The whole point of terrorism is the following : To get attention or to 'terrorize' a group of people. As far as that goes, they succeeded. The US is now completely on the terrorism-train and isn't planning on going off. Just see how much changed due to the terrorism. You want to defend the american way against terrorists? What american way is left? Freedom keeps decreasing.

Sure as hell can't depend on most of Europe to do anything.

I'll just ignore that remark, considering europe actually seems to consider it's actions which makes it a lot slower. I seem to recall a certain country creating huge messes all over the world and not paying it's UN contribution, while the UN could go in and play mop-up.

You do know why the French didn't want to...duhhh!

They didn't want to because they chose not to,showing more backbone than most countries.
I'm glad they did, sure, you might think their reasons are wrong, but they are THEIR reasons.

Are we supposed to let those barbarians take all our lives over, all for the sake of Allah (or so they say)?

You apparently did already, with all the worry and consideration towards them.
At the risk of sounding blunt again, this is exactly wat terrorists seek out to do. The 'best' way of dealing with it, it accepting the attack and not make a fuss out of it (Sure, the world trade center attack might have been a 'big' attack but it has been blown completely out of proportion. It has gained a life and momentum of it's own).

Next thing someone will be saying the holocaust didn't happen (some have already actually). Duhhhhh (yeah again). [img]confused.gif[/img]

What? Am i claiming that things that happened did not happen? You're trying to make me sound ridiculous with something that has nothing to do with the whole conversation.

We're truly a peaceful nation by nature and by preference,

Yah, tell that to iraq. "We are really nice, but now we're gonna conquer you"

and we feel a responsibility as a nation to make it possible for those in the world who live under a tyrant to have at least the choice for freedom in their own lives.

Well, looking back after the whole iraq war :
(And this IS the argument i warned against in my previous post)
Sure, the dictator may be gone, but if you REALLY cared about those people you would not have attacked.
Like i said, there is chaos, anarchy, no sanitation, no electricity. A whole country has been plunged into darkness.

"Oh we feel so much better now, please, take our sons, our safe lives, our water, healthcare, electricity, safety, food and chilren's future, in exchange for that strange thing called freedom that no-one can enforce because there is chaos currently"

The country is worse of. Sure, they may not have been 'free'. But they were able to live, the country was stable. And in the end, political and ideological ideas are all peachy, but they will not feed you.

We were drug into World War I and World War II...ahem...think about where Europe would be if we hadn't cared about those people (nobody gives us credit).

Well, sigh, okay, hereby, thanks for helping out, if it wasn't for you guys, we'd al speak russian by now. Because russia would have just conquered all of europe.
And don't tell me that 'you' were dragged into WW II. It is a choice made by your government. Not the 'people' of america. And i doubt their reasons were completely altruistic.

Oh, and on the front of thanking people for stuff
when do we get credit for actually settling that little continent you guys are sitting on right now?
You can keep on playing credit-games like these but it amounts to nothing in the discussion. It's about now, not about what happened 50 years ago.

Yeah, politics isn't boring, that's for sure. And don't take me wrong, I'm not angry here, we just deeply care about others as well as ourselves.

Apparently deeply care more for the others you know than the ones that are foreign to you..

Shatzy....under our present government I'm afraid your solution concerning changing presidents wouldn't be possible.....LOL! Love ya anyway though [img]tongue.gif[/img]

****Stealing Shatzy's vote**** [img]smile.gif[/img]

And for the record here I'm not a Bush fan, but I'm not too hot on the alternative either.

Hear hear!
The lesser of two evils, isn't it?

Thread: Cheney kicked Edwards Ass last night.

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